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Mundane Astrology, What’s Really Happening with the Economy, and What You Can Do

Transcribed from The Astrology Show with Mj Patterson
“What’s Coming in 2015 with William Stickevers”
(Airdate: January 2, 2015)

Mj Patterson: I’m delighted to welcome back William Stickevers from San Francisco.  He’s calling in from a great distance to have a chat with us about the year ahead.  Here we come, 2015.  Let’s find out.  Are we going to make money?  Are we going to lose money?  Is something going to explode?  What’s the deal?  So, welcome, William.

William Stickevers: Thank you for having me again, Mj.  It’s a real pleasure.  I really enjoyed our last interview and I’m totally psyched about talking about 2015 because, well, get your seatbelts on — it’s going to be a rough ride next year.

Mj:  Yeah, that’s what everyone’s saying.

William:  It will be very interesting.  There’s a lot to talk about.

Mj:  I think a lot of my senior students, they feel a kind of drift in the ocean when they don’t mind doing a birth chart and they can do your basic progressions and transits.  But when somebody asks them a big question “what’s going to happen in 2015,” I think they feel that they don’t know what to pick up first.  Do you have any advice?

William:  Well, first of all, what we’re talking about here is mundane astrology, which is a whole other gamut of perspective, tools, worldview.  It’s actually [a way of] trying to understand a civilization [through astrology] the way we study a personality as a psychic structure that is developing and unfolding and self-actualizing as a person, through [the lens of] a personal chart.  Everyone goes through their own personal self-actualization.  Astrologers look at horoscopes to help guide individuals in that process of that self-actualization, especially if that self-actualization has been somewhat interrupted or in a state of trauma or distress.  We look at the same things by applying mundane [astrological] techniques to looking at horoscopes of a nation state or events, and using a host of other astrological techniques and approaches that give us [global] perspective on what [Carl] Jung would call the archetypal development of the collective unconscious that is emerging on the world stage.

Mj:  And it really is a horse of an entirely different color, isn’t it?

William:  Yes, it’s completely different and we have to be much more objective in our approach which is very difficult.  We have to take away our partisan political leanings and we actually sometimes have to strip away a lot of our precepts of how the world ought to be.

Mj: (laughs) Yeah.

William:  What are the mundane portents really telling us? One of the things that’s really interesting about mundane astrology in particular, is that most astrologers are pretty much in agreement with the meanings of major alignments such as Saturn-Neptune or Jupiter-Uranus, Uranus-Pluto, etc. They’re pretty much in agreement [about their underlying archetypal meaning and expression], where you don’t find that in natal astrology.

Mj:  Not nearly so much.  I will concur.  I think that’s a very sound observation.

William:  Yes.  So in a way it is sometimes much easier, where mundane astrologers can get together and we find that we agree on 80% of how we see things unfolding, and [the remaining] 20% is areas that we’re disagreeing in, which [often] is subtle. And that’s a good thing; I like that. Where with natal astrology, it’s almost like trying to herd cats together.

Mj: (laughs) Yeah, I’ve heard that used before with astrologers, for sure.

William:  Right.  So what we’re going to talk about today is looking at two horoscopes that will give us an idea of what we can expect [in 2015-16], where things are moving towards, and what possibly we can do about it, to whatever level we can.

Mj:  Do you have — I should’ve asked you this before we started but let me ask you now — do you have a website where you might have these charts displayed?  Because I could put a link to that from my site and the listeners could have a chance to go ahead and take a look at them.

William:  Sure.  My website is williamstickevers.com and I have specially on my site on my blog forecasts for the astrological year 2014 and all those charts are listed there.

Mj:  That’s perfect.  So I’ll make sure to signpost everybody over there so they can enjoy the visual while you’re explaining it.  That’s going to make it really good for them.

William:  Right.  Now the other thing I want to establish here is that from the way I do traditional mundane astrology — and I use the word tradition, going back to the tradition — that March 20th was the astrological new year, not January 1st, not December 21st.

Mj:  Absolutely.  Agreed.  Yep, going for the equinox, you mean, the spring equinox.

William:  Correct.  And so therefore, astrological 2014 will go into January, February, and into most of March of next year.

Mj:  Cool.  Okay.

W:  So we’re still in 2014 on January 1st [2015], folks, in terms of how mundane astrologers match up the year and make forecasts.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  So, saying that, we can look at the chart of 2015 using the March ingress, and we could also take the December 21st chart when the Sun ingresses into 0 Capricorn and get an idea of the last quarter of 2014.

Mj:  Well, I figured that one out so — I’m just going to put my cards right on the table: I am not a mundane astrologer.  I have my CA-NCGR so of course I have enough mundane astrology to be able to nod wisely when someone like yourself who is a mundane astrologer discusses things; I don’t feel like a complete numpty.  But you’re streets ahead of me on this one, William.

William:  Well, you know, it’s simply because I have dedicated, I would say, hundreds to thousands of hours doing this [work].  I’ve read probably 200 books on [or related to] mundane astrology [over nearly 30 years], and not only that, I read books like Don’t Bank On ItThe Death of Money, numerous books on geopolitics. I have subscriptions to newsletters from some of the best people I consider in the business, if not in the world who do financial forecasting.  So I’m totally immersed in it, and it’s something that I feel I need to do now in order to give people perspective.  And the [main] reason I was pushed into this [study] was I wasn’t able to give my clients the answers to many of the problems they were beginning to have [back in 2007-2008]. For example, Jupiter was transiting their 10th house of career so they should have gotten a [well-paying] job, during their peak earning years and were not employed, especially having a master’s degree, and they were unemployed for over two years [when they came to me for a reading.]

Mj:  Wow.

William:  Yes…living in New York City.  So I said to myself, I’ve got to figure out what’s going on here because the old rules in natal astrology weren’t working. For example, you’ve got transiting Jupiter and Solar Arc Uranus hits your Sun everything should be happening and it wasn’t happening for them.

Mj:  Got ya.

William:  So that’s what pushed me into this.

Mj:  I have to say, I had a very similar experience.  My mom’s in this little club and they play on the stock market — it’s the Toronto Stock Exchange, though, not the DOW Jones or any of those.  But so I thought, this is kind of cool, maybe I’ll have a little fun here, learn a little bit about astrology and try to help them out.  And none of the indicators that the “baby” books — because I was starting out, right — none of the indicators were applying anymore.  It’s almost like the rules are being changed under our feet.

William:  Absolutely.  And it has.  It has in so many ways.  And one of the problems today is that many of the astrologers who are counseling who are not keeping their world view updated and looking at where the trends are moving are not able to help their clients at the level they once were able to.  And that’s one of my goals is to inform the astrological community that being aware of the mundane cycles will help you become a better consulting astrologer.

Mj:  It seems only logical.

William:  So a lot has been going on.  I predicted quite a bit for 2014.  I believe the best — or worst — is yet to come in this last quarter, especially now that we are in the last two Uranus-Pluto squares.

Mj: Yep.

William:  And I believe what we’re seeing, in essence, is a collective revolution and a massive upheaval of the [current] power structure and system in governance, and economics, and even the sciences.  There’s a complete revolution going on.  It’s happening worldwide.  There’s more protests, strikes, changes in government that have been occurring at an unprecedented rate.

Mj:  Indeed.  And I had a little fun, not knowing any of this stuff, I did the only thing I knew how to do and I researched and I looked back in time.  And there’s some crazy stuff, man.  The Nazi takeover of Germany, apparently, in 1933 was a Pluto-Uranus square.  They even cover Genghis Khan; they call him “master of medieval blitzkrieg” and that was in 1201.  And that was a conjunction, mind you, but they were basically on the war path throughout the waxing square.  So, yeah, I think it’s going to be pretty crazy.

William:  Yes.  In fact, look at the last Uranus-Pluto conjunction.  We had the ’60s protests, the counterculture revolution.

Mj:  Yep.

William:  We had a revolution in the sciences at the time.  We had the psychedelic revolution, we had the space age revolution, the microprocessor revolution, the computer revolution.  We also had revolutions in art, film, and it was also the golden age of television.

Mj:  And it almost seems like one foot, the other foot.  Because what I’m reading is, yes, they had these revolutions and then they had this power backlash where people were trying to squash, like the Nazi takeover of Germany, they actually mention the illegalization of LSD during the square.  So it’s like there’s busting out all over and then there’s people getting really stressed out about that, the people who are trying to hang on to the power and really putting the boot down.

William:  Well, yes.  It also stirs up the oligarchical elite or the [fossilized] patriarchal power structure to strike back [at the masses]. Keep in mind the repressive properties get constellated as well. That’s the shadow side of these Uranus-Pluto alignments which many people avoid talking about.  And we’re seeing that now those repressive measures by government through the Patriot Act, and the various other bills that are being pushed through [executive order] without due process of law that are taking away habeas corpus.

Mj:  Yeah, we’re having the same problems.  It’s not a national thing either because in Canada, we’re dealing with exactly the same thing.

William:  Right.  So that’s really the icing on the top.  What’s really happening as well, and what you have to realize is that these things are being put in place because they’re protection measures to [prop-up and] keep an obsolete system going and to prevent it from fracturing and imploding on its own weight.  And that has to do with the [large-scale] economic systems that are in place.  So what we’re witnessing now is really the collapse of that system.

Mj:  I wish I could find the article that I noted because I’ve been looking at this for the last few months, just being nosy, trying to peek under the covers.  And I can’t remember which angle it was, but somebody had written — it might even have been you — about that in the past when we had these outer transits — and I don’t know if it was Neptune-Saturn, I can’t remember — but it was that money systems tend to change and that the last time we had this we went from the gold standard or silver standard to paper money.

William:  Actually, I think I did write that article and I correlated every time that we had a Uranus-Pluto alignment, most every time, we had a shift in status or change in the world’s reserve currency.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  And what many people don’t know, is that in order for any country in the world to trade– whether it’s goods, services, oil or commodities, gold — it has to be done through U.S. dollars. Because U.S. Dollar is the world standard. So nations have to hold U.S. dollars [in their Central Banks] because that’s considered means by which trade settlements and [international] commerce can occur.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  Now today, what’s happening is because the U.S. dollar is no longer backed by gold, but rather backed by debt, and the United States is no longer able to repay that debt, that the world is beginning to move away from the U.S. dollar and move to other [multilateral] mechanisms where trade settlement can occur. And that’s mainly through the development of the Chinese yuan swap mechanism, along with an alternative SWIFT [Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication] system, that the Russians are putting in place now.

Mj:  Well, I’ve been watching China buy up American debt for some time now and waiting to see if anyone was going to notice.

William:  Everyone is talking about that right now and the Chinese are fundamentally so tied into America.  But the thing is, and what most people don’t realize, is the bigger issue of a global de-dollarization movement taking place. And that de-dollarization is more threatening to the Anglo-American banking system than anything else going on.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  And that collapse of the Anglo-American banking system will initiate a multi-polar world, instead of a unipolar world that we have now. Moving from a unipolar post-1945 world to a multi-polar world.  And that’s really what this Uranus-Pluto is moving us toward.  It will be the end of the Petrodollar hegemony that we see.

Mj:  Gotcha.

William:  And it will be the emergence of a new world order.

Mj:  Well, that’s kind of neat because we are sort of skating our way haphazardly towards to the age of Aquarius.  So certainly it is an algorithm that better suits an Aquarian mindset.

William:  Well, yes, especially with the emergence of cryptocurrencies, which the youth is actively doing. As you know, Uranus is really the planet of youth.  And with Uranus-Pluto in 2010 you saw the emergence of Bitcoin, and then soon after, other cryptocurrencies.  And the kids today are using the Dark Net, to do commerce by trading for goods and services using Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies that have no [oversight or] control by central banks or any government agency.

Mj:  Got ya.

William:  So, no taxation.  So this is the real revolution that is going on, and here’s what it’s all about: it’s about no longer using the dollar as a means of international trade settlement.  And they’re using the internet and cryptocurrencies, and all other means of doing business with each other.  And all this is [happening and] moving rapidly.  So what we’re seeing at the same time is the breakdown of the United States as the world economic engine per se, that’s affecting the growth of rest of the world. So at some point it will become a fact that the U.S. is no longer going to remain the central hub [of the global economy]. And the U.S. is going to go through some form of a [financial] reset. This will be part of a global reset event.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  So there will be a global political reset, an economic political reset, a financial reset, and it’s all coming to a head.

Mj:  Yeah.  And I think, too, that it’s really interesting to watch.  It’s not that the governments have gotten any worse; they’ve always been horrible.  Recently it’s been demonstrated in law that our extent Prime Minister is a criminal.  He actually forged the last election.  He is, in fact, in power illegally, and nobody’s doing anything about it.  But the thing is, people are getting less and less tolerant of this behavior.  And that’s what I find interesting.  The average person is just “mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.”  So it’s going to be an interesting year.

William:  The 2015 – 2016 period, as we begin the traditional new year, on January 1st, the “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore ” theme is going to take hold strongly [within the collective]. You’re going not only going to see that with the government, you’re going to see that in large-scale organizations, in companies, in communities, and in marriages as well. You’re going to see that in school lunchrooms, in prisons, in every area. It’s going to seem like the whole world is starting to just lose it.

Mj:  Yep.

William:  Because when people have nothing else to lose, they lose it.  And that’s where people are at.

Mj:  Yeah.  They’re on the raggedy edge, aren’t they?  I think that’s true, and it’s nice, it’s wonderful that we’re having this cross-border conversation because I’m not talking from a Canadian perspective.  You’re not talking from an American perspective.  This is the deal, baby, and it’s a global deal.

William:  Right.  And that’s what I said in my 2014 article that I published on March 20th, “Global Revolution Goes Full Throttle.”  And we’re going to see that.  We’re seeing that now with Ukraine, and we’ve been seeing that all last year.  And I believe that revolution theme of “I’m sick and tired and I’m not going to take it anymore” is going to happen now. People are going to lose complete trust in the system because — economies are all based on trust.  And once there’s no sense of trust, the system begins to break down.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  And that is exactly what we are now witnessing.  And that is the thing folks need to keep in mind.  What is money?  What does money mean?  And they’re going to realize they no longer trust what they’re being told what their money is anymore.  Especially when it can do less and less for them.

Mj:  Yeah, this is cool.  So for those people who are learning, who want to get involved with the mundane astrology, they want to get their toes wet, how could you coach them?  Is there a book they should read?  Obviously, they are going to check out your website, which is fantastic, which I just want to say is williamstickevers.com.  So, folks, that’s a good place to go to start your journey.  But what else would you recommend?  Here’s what I know — I know that 0 Aries and 0 Capricorn are really important in mundane astrology.  That’s about it, and I’ve learned from you tonight that the beginning of a mundane year is at the spring equinox, which is really cool and thank you for teaching me that.  And that’s pretty much where I’m at.

William:  Yeah, look, I have to say this, mundane astrology is a vast subject.  There are as many techniques in mundane astrology as there are in natal astrology. Now, if you can’t see the answer your client has in transits, can’t see it using progressions, and even tertiaries aren’t working for you, and you decide to use a new natal technique [or horary] to get the answer, that is stretching it.  In mundane astrology, we have many techniques as well that’s very much tied up with cycles.  Like the Hindu yoga cycles; the Plato great years cycle; the processional great years cycle; the cycles between the collective planets and Uranus-Neptune-Pluto; the declination cycles in Uranus-Neptune-Pluto; the cycles between a social and collective planet such as Jupiter-Saturn, Uranus-Neptune-Pluto; the cyclic index of Gouchon and Barbault; the world horoscope; the collective planet cycles of national charts; the cycles of intermediates planets, such as Mercury, Venus, and Mars.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  And we have the annual cycles that focus on the time and location with long-term trends.  And then we have the solar cycle, the lunar cycles, and the daily cycles.

Mj:  So arguably if you’re using solar-lunar you’re using the Saros cycles, the eclipse cycles as well, then.

William:  Correct, absolutely.  In fact, the fastest way you can get yourself immersed in mundane astrology is by understanding the eclipse cycle.

Mj:  Cool!

William:  And then looking at the outer planet cycles which the Barbault and Gouchon index measure.  Because people can understand graphs pretty easily.

Mj:  Yeah.

William:  It’s pretty intuitive when you see the line of the graph go up or down to where things are moving towards.  So there are many other techniques out there that one must get immersed in — ingresses, lunations, eclipses is the first step.  And then taking it further, you can get into the cycles of the outer planets as the Barbault Index does, which has proven itself over and over again to be the most reliable indicator of the global economy and political stability and the development of civilization in history.  And by the way, that indicator right now is showing a [sharp] downward trend between 2014 and 2022.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  So we’re going to have on this index, which I actually looked at since 1 AD and analyzed it all the way until current time and correlated with all the major historical events.

Mj:  So that’s what I love.  I just need to pause you there because, did you hear that, listeners?  He started with 1 AD, and he studied all that back-data.  Why?  So that he can use forward-data effectively and accurately.  This is the science of astrology.  Go ahead, William.

William:  Well, basically what we do is we take the outer planets and we determine when they’re moving closest to each other, the line goes down.  When they’re moving furthest from each other, the line goes up.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  So the line goes down, that is a period of involution and breakdown and crisis and contraction, revolution, upheaval.  When the line goes up, that’s a period of development, constructive periods where you see recovery, social conditions improving, stability, optimism, a lot of constructive developments occur.  So we look at that and see for example if you look at the 20th century, there was a big drop in 1914 to 1919.  That was the time when World War I occurred.

Mj:  Mm-hmm.

William:  Then you had the Roaring ’20s where the line goes shooting up.  And then the line drops significantly starting in ’29 and bottoms in ’32, and that was the time where the world was initiated into the Great Depression.

Mj:  Sure.  The Dirty Thirties.

William:  The line stabilizes and then makes a really big drop from ’39 into ’43/’44 which correlated with the biggest battles in World War II.

Mj:  Mm-hmm.

William:  Then the line stabilizes throughout the ’50s, takes another drop again and that correlates with the Korean War.  The line moves up again and then you have that period in the early ’60s where we had the Space Race and the JFK era.

Mj:  And peace and love, man.  Don’t forget, peace and love, man.

William:  That’s right, so we have that, the ’60s revolution.  The line takes another dramatic drop in ’73 and that was the oil crisis, you’ll remember.

Mj:  Yep.

William:  And we also had that war in the Middle East and we had massive inflation.

Mj:  Up here we had a typical mortgage rate in that time because my mom went and bought a house during that time.  It was something crazy like 25%.

William:  Right.  So then the line hits a real bottom in ’82; that is called the Second Cold War.  And then the line begins moving up rapidly from ’85 onward and that’s when Gorbachev takes power, that’s when Glasnost and Perestroika happen, and also when the economies of Japan and Germany are thriving and become major partners with the United States.  It’s a booming period.  Then the line drops in the early ’90s when the Soviet Union collapses. And then the line shoots up nonstop from around ’93 to 2001, and what did we see?

Mj:  Okay.

William:  We see this boom period of irrational exuberance take place, with this massive bubble build up. Then all of a sudden [out of nowhere] 9/11 occurs, the Dot Com Bubble implodes, and then the line stabilizes all the way through until 2006.  And then it begins dropping and it drops again until 2009.  And you see the financial crisis occur, the collapse of the Lehman crisis, and the global financial implosion.  You see massive deleveraging of the Middle Class occur and double-digit unemployment worldwide.  Then the line stabilizes between 2008 until 2014 and then it begins the biggest drop, a 500-point drop which correlates very closely with the collapse of the Roman Empire between May of 2014 until September 2022.

Mj:  Crikey.  Yeah, because that is when we were thinking that there might be a hit on the stock market around Easter time [2014] and I was really surprised that it didn’t seem to show up.

William:  Well, let me explain that.  A lot of people think the stock market is the market to watch.  It is not.  It is the least sophisticated and smallest market.  The total capitalization is only $60 trillion.

Mj:  I’m sorry, did you say only $60 trillion?  Oh my God.

William:  It’s about the capitalization of Microsoft.  No, excuse me, let me take that back.  It’s the total market capitalization of one year’s global GNP, $60 trillion.

Mj:  Wow.  Okay.

William:  Now, what’s larger than that is the bond market.  That’s over $100 trillion.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  And what’s even bigger than that is the currency market, the FOREX market, the commodities, the currencies.  And they trade at $5 trillion a day.

Mj:  Crikey.

William:  Now take $5 trillion and multiply it by 365.  That’s a huge number.

Mj:  That’s a big number.  Oh yeah.

William:  So here’s the thing.  When people talk about the stock market, especially the astrologers, they have very little understanding that the stock market is the last thing to be affected by…

Mj:  The last thing to go — not the first thing to go…

William:  Yes, that is the last thing to go.  You want to look at is at the commodities market, the currency markets, what the central banks are doing, and then after that, you want to look at the bond markets.  And I can tell you that if you look at that, and you look at what has recently transpired exactly on the day of the Uranus-Pluto alignment on December 15th — what happened that day?

Mj:  I do not know.  Teach me.

William:  The Russian ruble.

Mj:  Did it devalue?  Oh yeah!  I remember hearing about this.

William:  Now that is very important.  Why?  It’s important because the ruble is very tied in with oil, the way the Russians sell their oil to the Europeans who are extremely dependent on them.  And remember, Russia is the largest oil and gas provider in the world, not the Middle East.  That being said, the fact that the ruble is being devalued and the Russian economy is about to collapse is a very telling sign because that will set off a Credit Soft Swap [CDS] from a crashing derivative.  Now, derivatives are bets on bets [with no oversight], and Russian oil futures contracts based on trading around $90 a barrel., and trading companies hedge their bets on future contracts with derivatives.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  Now remember, the derivative market is worth 10 times the amount of the stock market.

Mj:  Crikey.

William:  Yes.  It’s bigger than the stock market, it’s bigger than the bond market.  And who also uses derivatives?  [Too Big to Fail] Banks.

Mj: Oh…

William:  All “too big to fail” banks make their money, not by lending money anymore — that’s old school.  That’s why they don’t lend money out.  They don’t lend it to anyone for that matter; that’s why the money supply is lower than it was in 1932.  In other words, the circulation of money is occurring less than at the height of the Great Depression.

Mj:  Crikey.

William:  So the banks get money from the government.  They keep that money, and they then invest that money into the derivatives market and what is left over to the stock market.  And the derivatives market is tied in directly with the currency market.  And so, when there are derivative contracts, or $90 oil, and oil is now trading at $50, and now going to $20…

Mj:  Yeah, we know this in Canada because Alberta right now is our oil patch, I guess you could say, and you’re talking to me in Nova Scotia which is on our east coast, and everybody here goes out west to get work and sends the money home.  So everybody’s just been laid off and they’ve all come home just before Christmas.

William:  That’s right.  So what we’re seeing here is those derivative contracts are going to be due by January [2016].  So what I wrote on my website, Uranus-Pluto Krakatoa-Type Event has already occurred.

Mj:  Ooh…

William:  It has already begun.  It’s a massive black swan event.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  And it has to do with the fact that the Russian ruble, the derivative positions, and the Russian ruble have been compromised to the point where when those contracts come due, there will not be enough money in the world to cover them.

Mj:  Got ya.

William:  And so therefore, the sheer speed and scale of the collapse of the ruble has nothing to do with what happened in 1998.  Because the eighth largest economy on the entire planet is in a state of turmoil right now, and what we are going to see is a major upheaval in the derivatives market and that is going to affect everybody.

Mj:  I mean, it’s terrifying but I have to say, with my astrologer head on, I find it absolutely fascinating.

William:  Yes.  So like I said, and I’ll read the conclusion verbatim for the folks here.  “What is occurring now in Russia that happened on December 15th [2014] during the penultimate Uranus-Pluto alignment will have terrible repercussions through all of Europe.  The implications between now and the final Uranus-Pluto square that will occur in March 2015 is extremely hostile and volatile to the global economic climate, and it will not be confined within Russia’s borders.”

Mj:  Not at all.

William:  “This is just a prelude to the great unraveling as exchange rate volatility continues to increase, leading the way to systemic debt contagion.”  So remember, back in the ’20s and early ’30s, Europe went into a depression first, then it hit North America.  We are seeing the same thing go in play again.  And remember — when you have financial wars, lead to trade wars, lead to shooting wars.

Mj:  Yep.  Absolutely.  And certainly that is what history teaches us.  Okay, so, here’s the $5 question.  Given that we’re about to get a storm where we’re going to be floating around on a stormy sea in a tea cup holding on with both hands, what is your advice to the average Joe for the year ahead?  What shouldn’t they do, what should they do?

William:  Well, I think political activism, social activism.  I think you need to get really involved.  I think they’ve got to stop expecting the elected officials to —  they have to stop buying into what they’ve been told.  I don’t have all the quick and dirty answers for this —

Mj:  No, no, I’m not expecting.  I mean, it would be great but we couldn’t possibly pay you enough an hour if you had the quick and dirty answer (laughs) to this one.  (laughs)

William:  Let’s just say that, what I really believe needs to be done [to address the crisis], needs to be much more radical in the sense that, compared to what people are doing now.  Just posting something on Facebook and ranting about is not enough.

Mj:  Yeah.

William:  You know, part of the reason I’m doing this radio show is to get the message out there that life is going to change for many people, and if you think that voting for the other party come election time in November 2016 or whenever they vote in Canada is going to be the solution, that is NOT the solution.  What we need is a complete change in the system and we need to become very active in that process of change, starting now. We need to voice our positions.  And what this comes down to this, and that is we no longer have a representative government.

Mj:  We have not had a representative government, certainly at our end, for a long time.

William:  Right.  And so I believe what ordinary people need to do is completely drop the expectation that “if I vote for the other [establishment] party I never voted for this time around, things will change.” Sorry but that is not going to change anything.

Mj:  Yeah, wasn’t it Einstein, or it’s often ascribed to Einstein, that “a problem that’s created at one level of thinking cannot be solved by that level of thinking,” you have to get up to a higher octave.

William:  Correct.  So I believe the revolution starts [right in your own] home  It starts in local communities.  It starts with getting organized and discussing these things and not trying to immediately come up with solutions but recognizing what’s really going on.  A lot of folks out there, including the astrologers, need to start doing this. And you know this, Mj, we don’t see any of this happening.  Most are just clueless.  Many astrologers are not even talking about it.

Mj: (sigh) Well, yeah, but the thing is, William, you’re asking them to re-learn.  The problem is that I can feel it, I can see it.  I mean, I’m all about the data, same as you, and the paradigm is shifting, which means that the astrological indicators are shifting which means we got to get up off our ass and crunch the data and figure out what it means this week, not what it meant in 1922.  And there are a lot people who are very comfortable because they learned it in 1922 and they really don’t want to learn it again.

William:  Well, this is what I have to say to folks listening, especially those astrologers out there is this: Soon, much sooner than you think, you will know what I know.

Mj:  But not by the indications that they’re used to using.  That’s what I’m noticing is that if you don’t treat astrology as the science it is, and if you keep relying on old data, pretty soon you’re going to look like a Proper Wally because you’re going to be saying stuff that isn’t true and you’re going to be missing critical stuff that people need to know.

William:  Right.  So what I say to the folks out there and to the astrologers is that your world view [as you have known it] ended a long time ago.

Mj:  Mm.

William:  It ended back in 2000, 2001.  Okay.  And your world view is not sufficient to come to the solutions and recognitions of the issues at hand.  This has nothing to do with intelligence [but about consciousness].  And all this is going to happen soon is an event will take place — it’s already begun —

Mj:  Yeah.

William:  Well to many that will shift and shatter your present world view.  And there are many other people out there who are catching on.  One of the things I’m going to say right now is the Prepper Movement is going to go mainstream, worldwide.  There is about 10 million people prepping for some event or they’re buying bitcoin or gold or silver, they’re getting a 3-month food supply in the house, and being self-sufficient, doing whatever they need to do to survive some type of major dislocation.

Mj:  Yep.

William:  That number is going to grow to, like, 50%.  I believe it’s going to grow upward to 50%.

Mj:  Yeah, I’m really noticing that here.  We’ve got something called Halifax Garden Swap.  It is the most radical thing you can do, right, is grow your own food.  Because that sticks it to Monsanto like nothing else will.

William:  Right.  So again, I just have to say this, to those skeptical folks out there, who think “steady as she goes,” or “it’s just going to be more of the same but only worse”, you will soon know what I know.

Mj:  It won’t be so crazy in a couple of years.

William:  Maybe sooner than that.

Mj:  Sooner than that!  You reckon this year, eh?

William:  Yes.  I believe this event has already begun and I believe you will see the fallout go worldwide, and then from Wall Street to Main Street much sooner than anybody thinks.

Mj:  Alrighty.  Well, I’m going to hang onto my hat all the way over here in Halifax and hope we don’t get a tsunami.  (laughs) Listen, it’s been absolutely amazing having you on.  I’m very grateful for your time, and I might be rattling your chain over the next few months as things kick off, maybe bring you back on and give us — you could be our rudder, you could give us a little bit of guidance, eh?

William:  Yes, absolutely.  We’ll focus more on that in the next discussion.  I just wanted to make my statements that 2015 is going to be the year where everyone is going to start getting it.

Mj:  Well, I’m excited and I appreciate the tips for the mundane astrologers out there, too — or maybe the bouncing baby mundanes like me — because it is too much to eat whole.  It’s too huge; you have to take little nibbles.  So I’m going to go and follow your advice and definitely going to check out your page.  And I’ll make sure there are links from my page to yours so people can find you.

William:  Thank you very much for having me, Mj, and I hope your audience appreciates the type of show you provide because there are very few shows out there that cover the scope or gamut of things that are going on in astrology like yours does.

Mj:  Well, it’s fun, you know.  And it allows me to talk to cool folks like your good self, right?  So, (laughs) I look forward to speaking with you soon and thank you so much for joining us here on The Astrology Show.

The Astrology Show with Mj Patterson airs on Fridays 6:00-7:00pm  AST (Atlantic Standard Time) on CKDU-FM (Halifax, Nova Scotia) or at www.ckdu.ca.



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The Birth Time of Jesus

Transcribed from “The Astrology Show” with Mj Patterson
(Airdate: December 26, 2014)

Mj Patterson: We’re very lucky today, we’ve got William Stickevers.  He’s calling in all the way from San Francisco, and I had the pleasure to meet him at the last conference I attended. He has the delightful reputation of offering colorful opinions, and sometimes people try to give him a hard time for it but, you know what, he backs everything he says up with facts — and you know how I like my facts.  So I’m delighted that William is joining us today. How are you doing?

William Stickevers: Great!  Thank you for having me today, Mj.

Mj: Oh, it’s my pleasure indeed; I really appreciate your time.  So we’re going to try to do a couple of things here, and it’ll probably span two shows, which is perfect with me.  The first thing is that I was halfway through this show about “when is Jesus really born” — you know, “while shepherds watch their flocks by night,” not really going to happen in the winter time.  And I was chatting with you on the Facebook and you said you had a chart.

William: Well, basically I started writing an article on the first Christmas celebration which occurred in 336 AD in Rome which we have a record of.  And from there I noticed that when that occurred it was shortly after the time that the last processional ingress of Aries occurred in 292 [AD], which initiated the age of Pisces.

Mj: Yep.

William: Now I found that very, very interesting because Catholicism, or Christianity in general, is very much tied up with the image of Pisces.  The idea of repenting, or “repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is near” — that’s actually the first phrase or soundbite people become aware of when Jesus began his ministry in October 29 AD.

Mj: And there’s a quote or something “I will make you fishers of men” at some point in the New Testament.

William: Yes, that’s right.  And the 12 disciples were called fishers of men.  And so, there’s lots of references to a lot of Piscean archetypal imagery, and metaphor, and words we associate with Pisces all throughout the New Testament and the sign of Christianity when it was a cult religion for the first 300 years under the Roman Empire was a sign of the fish.  That was the secret symbol.

Mj: Which is pretty cool.  Now, just for our senior students who might be listening, when you say that something has moved out of Aries and into Pisces, can you help them understand the astronomy of what you’re talking about?

William: Yes, it’s a little complex, but we have actually two zodiacs.  We have a Tropical zodiac axis [the Tropical system defines it based on the position of vernal equinox, for example the intersection of the ecliptic with the celestial equator], which is what astrologers in the Western world primarily use, and we have a Sidereal zodiac which is what a majority of astrologers in the Eastern world use, especially in India.

Mj: Indeed.

William: And they were one and the same, meaning that if you were born March 24 around the time of Jesus, you were an Aries in both the Tropical and Sidereal.  But what happened over time was those zodiacs, for very complex astronomical reasoning, mechanics that go beyond the scope of this show, and something I’m not ready to explain in detail at the moment, however they started moving apart from one another. And that has very much to do with the wobble of the Earth’s rotation.

Mj: Exactly. Because our pole star wasn’t always Polaris, and we don’t spin completely straight up and down, we have that wobble going on.  And absolutely, it splits the two.  Basically the sky, the piece of sky we call Aries now isn’t the same piece of sky anymore.

William: Right.  Actually we’re 23 degrees Pisces according to the Sidereal zodiac.  So what happens is that we have an equinox and during the time of the equinox the Sun on March 20th at the equator at sunrise is at 0 degrees of Aries in the sky.  That happens every year.  However, because the Sidereal zodiac is moving backwards, it’s actually 23 degrees of Pisces [as of 2015, when directly measured against the backdrop to the zodiacal constellations].

Mj: Yep.

William: And so what I found interesting, going back to the Christianity, is that the time that that processional moment happened in 292 when the zodiac started separating from each other, Christianity emerged as a major political force and cultural force inside the Roman Empire because it was approximately only 40 years later that the first Christmas celebration occurs.  And then, within 20 years of that, the Edict of Milan was enacted, which was an agreement to treat Christians benevolently within the Roman Empire.

Mj: So no more feeding them to the lions.

William: Correct.

Mj: (jokingly) Darn.

William: And eventually it would become the de facto religion of the Roman Empire in 380 [Edict of Thessalonica].

Mj: That’s a pretty fast track for any religion, isn’t it?

William: Yes, very fast.  And I believe it’s very much tied with the processional ingress where the zodiac started splitting from one another.  And, if that is the case, when in 292, the year that the age of Pisces officially started, we can see that archetypal  development in history, then leading into the age of Aquarius, that will occur sometime around 2496.

Mj: And the same idea, because we’re wobbling, the pieces of sky are slowly creeping apart from each other.  And I find this quite amusing because those who do not understand or see through the glass darkly love to use this separation of Sidereal and Tropical as some kind of proof that astrology doesn’t work, which is delicious because here you are using it to demonstrate that astrology does work.

William: Absolutely.  It was something I discovered as I was writing the article itself.  It’s not like I noticed this and thought ‘let me find a way to write an article about this and talk about this and talk about processional ingressions or separation between tropical and sidereal zodiac’.  I didn’t have that approach at all.  If I was writing for an astrology magazine, maybe, yes.  But I was just trying to write something for most people who are curious about how astrology and Christmas tie into one another.

Mj: Right.

William: And when I was reading that the 12 apostles were called “fishers of men” and the early Christians called themselves “little fishes” which was a code word for Jesus, I started looking into it further and found that correlation.

Mj:  Got ya.  So what is the actual date that you’ve chosen for the chart and time?  And when I did my research, I came up with well over 10 different charts.  And I sort of poo-pooed anything that wasn’t in March or April, but actually your chart is in September, I believe.

William: Well, here’s the reason why.  First of all, we know it’s September because you can’t be called Rabi unless you’re born in the month of September in 1st century Palestine.

Mj: Okay, sorry, you just cut out — can you say that again?

William: In 1st century Palestine, there were certain rules in Judaism that, in order to be rabbi, to even be called rabbi you had to be born within the month of September.

Mj: Wow — where did you find that little nugget?  That’s pretty powerful.

William: Yeah, the Jewish community, the 1st century Palestinians in Judea were very aware of the prophecy.  In fact, the Roman Emperor Augustus was aware of that prophecy that there would some Savior that would be born in Judea and to liberate the Jews from Roman rule and reestablish their empire.  But, there were certain conditions that had to be met:  the Savior had to be born in Judea, from the house of David – meaning the bloodline from the mother had to be directly from the house of David; he had to be a first-born son; he had to born in the most holy month of Judaism. So in order for Jesus to qualify as rabbi, he had to be born in the holiest month of Judaism, which is the month of Tishri. [Tishri usually occurs in September on the Gregorian calendar.]

Mj: Cool.

William: So that is very clear.  The other bit of evidence that we know that he was born in the month of September is because we know, based on the New Testament sources, that John the Baptist was born in the month of March, because we know the time that he was conceived (Leviticus 21:16–23). [The Eighth Course of Abijah was May 26 to June 1 in 3 B.C.E, John was conceived during that period of time. The human gestation period is about 280 days ― nine months and ten days. This shows the birth of John the Baptist near March 10, 3 B.C.E.] And we know, if you just do the math, he was born sometime in about early March. And we know Jesus was conceived sometime in the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy (Luke 1:26, 36).Jesus was born six months after, which makes it September.  So the evidence is really clear why Jesus wasn’t born December 25th, but sometime around the Jewish Feast of the Tabernacles which was a very holy day in Judaism, and that is September 11th.  So, around the date-time of September 11th [Tishri One on the Jewish calendar].

Most modern scholars and archaeologists who do this type of work believe that Jesus was born around that time, for various reasons.  We don’t know the exact day, and anyone who claims to know the exact day is just speculating.  So we know that.  We also know what year he was born, and that you basically just do the mathematics.

Mj: Well, I was going to ask you about that.  Now a couple things have popped into my mind and one is this old hymn, “While Shepherds Watch Their Flocks By Night.” Being a crabby old Celt in that a lot of people call them Celtic reconstructionist — I like to call them Celtic inventionist — I found that histories lie, but stories and songs tell the truth.  You just have to know how to read them.  So, I give a lot of weight to the old “While Shepherds Watch Their Flocks By Night” and I’m just curious, is that something they would do in the fall?  Or is that just hoo-hoo?  And the other question is didn’t Herod die in 4 BC?

William:  No, well, let’s put the Herod controversy to the side because — and I’m not avoiding that question —

Mj:  Nope, I know you well — you don’t avoid any question; you go barreling in.

William:  Right.  I first want to establish the most important data.  If we take the time of the crucifixion, which we know is April 3rd, 33 AD, Nisan 14 [day and hour in the Jewish calendar] and in 33 AD it occurred on a Friday in the month of April. And so that exactly correlates with Passover, we know there was a lunar eclipse at that time, and we know it occurred at 5:21 pm LMT (Local Mean Time) [in Jerusalem]. Jesus, according to Luke, died shortly after the eclipse and the apostles had to rush the body to prepare it for burial before the sunset.

Mj:  Right, because of shevat, probably.

William:  Right, because of the Sabbath [the commencement of the Jewish Passover meal that would begin at Sunset – Nisan 15, that would begin at 6:15 pm LMT].  So, here’s the thing.  We know the date of the crucifixion. We also know for a fact that he began his ministry in 29 AD, which was the 19th year of Tiberius’ rule.  So, just taking those two facts into consideration we can do the math because he’s “of 30 years of age” when he begins his ministry.  And using those two dates, 33 and 29 and working backwards from this, it would appear that Jesus was born in 2 or 3 BC.  And most likely 3 BC.

Mj:  Okay, didn’t Herod kill all the little kids and if Herod’s dead, he can’t do that.

William:  Well, that’s another oversight.  You have to realize, too, that there’s a mix up because Herod dies during a lunar eclipse.  However, there are mistakes made by some modern historians, especially in the mid-’60s and early ’70s, about the timing of that eclipse because there were two lunar eclipses that exactly coincided with Herod’s death.  For there that occurred in 1 BC and the other is in 4 BC.

Mj: So they might’ve gone for the wrong eclipse in other words.

William:  Correct.  And there’s plenty of evidence that points to that Herod died 18 days after the January 10th Lunar Eclipse in 1 BCE [and that Jesus was therefore born in 2/3 BC (regnal dating) — as confirmed by Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Africanus, Hippolytus of Rome, Hippolytus of Thebes, Origen, Eusebius and Epiphanius].

Mj:  Got ya.

William:   Much more evidence pointing to that.  We could talk more about that; I just wanted to keep it short.

Mj:  We could go pretty deep through this but we’ve got a one-hour show and I want to pick your brains in other ways.  So I’m going to throw out a couple things from, I would say, competing contenders in terms of charts.  There’s a plethora of 7 BCE charts and one that I saw which was 6 BCE.  The 7 BCE charts are looking at a big stellium in Pisces that was rising in the east as it were, I guess the star of Bethlehem, and the one chart that was 6 BCE was using the same constellation, or stellium, but — for anyone listening, as stellium just means a whole lot of planets in one spot, and shiny.  And one of these fellas was Saturn. And Saturn would have been visible in the night sky in those days, and they didn’t know about some of the other ones that are further out, but they totally knew about Saturn, and it would be quite shiny rising in the east there.  They’d definitely spot that.  And the one guy that went for 6 BCE said, you know, those magi, they came from Persia, that’s a long walk, I’m thinking that it might’ve taken them a year to get there.  So I think they’re trying to use those indicators to find the time or day rather earlier.  So any thoughts on why that wouldn’t work, or any thoughts on that at all?

William:  Well, it just won’t work because if you do the math, Jesus was “of 30 years of age.”  He was 29, or he was 30 years of age in 29 AD in October.  Now if we do the math the way I’m looking at it, he just turned 30 years of age when he began his ministry.

Mj:  Okay.  That’s very Saturn Return, isn’t it?

William:  Yes.  So the other thing too is, which happens to be one of my gripes with many of astrologers is they say, ‘well, this 6-8 BC thing is when the stellium in Pisces occurred’ or ‘so that had to be when Jesus was born’, and make these conclusions, as they overlook all the other historical data. For they don’t look at what the writing of the historians of the time, like Josephus for instance.

Mj:  Yep.  And then they call it science.

William:  And then they call it science and then you have to take them for their word, and they’ve already made up their mind that it’s 7 BC.  Hey look, I was guilty of this as well.  I said, oh, my teacher said it’s 7 BC, it has to be so I can’t question my teacher or question the facts, it just is what it is. However, when I started looking at the historical facts [during that period], and then started coming up with a different year, it was correlating very closely to what modern scholars say. Then all of a sudden all the 7 BC astrologers went up in arms against me.

Mj:  You bad, bad man; you’re rocking the boat again (laughs). Good for you!

William:  Yeah.  Yes, so I believe that astrologers need to reexamine this.  And we do know for a fact when the eclipse occurred on the day of Christ’s crucifixion, we knew he was of 30 years of age — not 40 years of age.  And by the way, the average lifetime age of a 1st-century Palestinian man was 37 years of age. So it’s hard to believe that Christ was born 7 BC, and that the apostles would be of 40 years of age, it just doesn’t add up and make sense.  Everything supports a 2 or 3 BC date.

Mj: Okay.  Have you any thoughts about what the Star of Bethlehem then would have been, and indeed would it have occurred at his birth, prior to his birth, or is it all made up tosh and it’s just a bit of PR?

William:  Well, you know, there’s a big problem with the Star of Bethlehem because the Chinese, which were a very sophisticated civilization as well, did not see any Star of Bethlehem.  If there was a star that big and bright, other indigenous cultures around the world, especially the Chinese and the Mayans, would have noted that, and we would have been able to see the astronomical calculations to determine the time frame.  So, I tend to believe that star, they were referring to something else, and that had to do with the activity that was active in 3 BC at that time.

Mj:  Okay.  Well, that’s pretty cool.  So basically you say that you can guess roughly when he was born, but to get an exact chart, that’s just supposition.  So, no 24-hour rectification then?

William:  Right.  I would say we should be looking more at the month of September 2 BC or 3 BC, or we could even look at 4 BC, although the math doesn’t add up based on Biblical chronology …

Mj:  Yeah, that’s kind of stretching it, isn’t it?  Because wasn’t he supposed to be around 2 when Herod did his nasty?  He wasn’t very old.

William:  Right.  Well, when Herod [who was born 74 BCE was around 70 years of age] became very sick, his sons were printing his coins; as early as 4 BC to ensure their succession of rulership in Judea.  So, it’s pretty clear if we look at the evidence that it’s most likely that Herod died in 1 BC.  And doing the math, we know that there was some persecution from Herod within 2 years of Jesus’ birth.  So, I would think that astrologers need to reexamine now the month and the time frames of what we discussed and then they can speculate from there what would be the astrological chart of an individual [born during the founding era of the Roman Empire in an obscure province] who had arguably the biggest impact in shaping the Western medieval worldview and influencing the course of history over the past 2000 years.

Mj:  Yep.  Pretty much.  I mean, I can’t think of anything anywhere on the planet, even in places where ostensibly Christianity isn’t “the state religion.”  It still has a far-reaching effect.  I grew up in Korea and knew the Orient pretty well, and I mean, they’re mostly Buddhists, right.  But, my goodness, even there, the impact is pretty staggering.

William:  Right.  So that’s how I see it.  I think if I were to say it’s September 11th, 3 BC at 8:48am, but that’s just pure but informed speculation on my part, and that’s not really going to help much.

Mj:  Nope, I get it.  That’s one thing I very much appreciate about you, young fella, that you’re very much about the facts.  And it’s so refreshing, I have to say.  It’s wonderful.

William:  And I think the crucifixion date is more relevant and I think what’s even more relevant is the official date of the Roman Catholic Church, when that began which was on Pentecost, which was in May 24th of 33 AD, and we even know the time that the Catholic Church became an [spiritually empowered] operational entity.

Mj:  What time?

William:  We know it’s 9am.  And it’s actually stated in the Bible.

Mj:  Is that LMT?  Is that in Rome?  At the Vatican?

William:  No, it’s not in Rome.  It’s in Jerusalem, and it is stated directly out of the Bible when the Holy Spirit entered the 12 apostles.  And I believe there was nearly 100 people in the room who experienced that.

Mj:  Okay.

William:  So that occurs in May.  We actually have the chart for that event that occurred in May.

Mj:  Okay, so for those listening, it’s May the what?

William:  May 22nd, 33 AD at 9am and that’s Local Mean Time in Jerusalem.

Mj:  Okay, and all you people listening, if you’ve been following my classes, you know how to get Local Mean Time.  … That’s what we’re all about — to get more people involved in the real astrology, as opposed to the stuff in the newspaper.

William:  Right.  And the source is from the Book of (Acts 1:13, 26). Where the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles became known as Pentecost.

Mj:  That is so cool.  Thanks, William.  So, I hope I haven’t forgotten to ask you any useful questions about this chart, but I think I would love to have you back next week for the new year’s show to share some ideas about what’s coming up this year.

William:  Yes, I would love that.

Mj:  So do you have anything that you want to finish off with, any details?

William:  No, I just think that we’re never going to know Christ’s birth. The astrologers can claim what they want as a community [that they know it’s 6 BC or 7 BC], but in terms of real rigor, historical matching up the horoscope with the historical facts and based on new and recent breakthroughs in archaeology on 1st century Palestine, it is clear that the years of Christ birth are off and erroneous.  It cannot be that time frame that they are talking about, and it’s much closer to the time frame that the Gregorian calendar was based on [that was introduced it in 1582 which was a refinement to the Julian calendar amounting to a 0.002% correction in the length of the year and Anno Domini (AD 1)  the traditionally reckoned year of the conception and birth of Jesus of Nazareth.].

Mj:  Bang on.

William:  So that’s how I’ll sum it up, and I think we could learn a lot more by looking at what happened during the time of the crucifixion and Pentecost and how the Church unfolded using those horoscopes.

Mj:  Well, I very much appreciate that, and everything you say, I’ve learned from experience, you back it up with not one, not two, but a whole plateful of data which I really appreciate.

William:  Thank you.

Mj:  Thank you very much for joining us this weekend.  I look forward to having a chat with you next week about 2015.


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The Astrology Show with Mj Patterson airs on Fridays 6:00-7:00pm  AST (Atlantic Standard Time) on CKDU-FM (Halifax, Nova Scotia) or at www.ckdu.ca.


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